Twin brothers Kevin and Matthew McManus have been making movies together “since fifth grade, when we were 11 or 12”. Their latest vehicle, Redux Redux – a clever and inventive multiverse-hopping tale of a grieving mother’s search for vengeance and redemption – plots an unexpected, thrilling and emotionally intelligent path through a classic sci-fi premise.
With the film picking up plaudits on the international film festival circuit, STARBURST sat down with the co-writers and co-directors of Redux Redux to talk female agency in genre moviemaking, the infinite flexibility of the multiverse format, the importance of living in the present, and the movies that inspire them on their own creative journey.
STARBURST: From where did the central premise of Redux Redux originate, and how did the script then germinate?
Kevin McManus: The idea really came from a desire to tell a multiverse movie in a different way. I think time travel movies are a close relative of multiverse films, even though they’re not quite the same thing. In the beginning, we’d watch these time travel movies that really felt like they’re more of an excuse to tell a fantasy story, right? ‘How do you live amongst the dinosaurs? How do you get to King Arthur’s court?’ And it wasn’t until we were watching movies like The Terminator and Back to the Future that the focus felt smaller and more personal. That really resonated with us.
So we asked ourselves, ‘how can we tell a multiverse story that isn’t about totally wild “what if” situations?’ If we were to imagine an infinite amount of universes, what if the changes between them are just infinitely small – just one little detail? Something that’s barely even noticeable? What would that do to a character who is traversing the multiverse trying to alter just their own universe? How frustrating would that be? How would it change them as a person?’ That was really the seed of the idea, and then it grew into Redux Redux.
Did you decide quite early on that the actual sci-fi mechanics of the multiverse was not something that you were going to spend time on?
Kevin: As filmmakers, we’re really drawn to sci-fi stories that keep the sci-fi a little at arm’s length. I’d say our North Star is really the original Terminator. If you drop into any scene during that movie, you might think it’s a horror movie, it’s a slasher movie, it’s an LA crime story, and not even realise there’s a time travel element to it. That is something we’re always drawn to. How can you say the least and still get the idea across? So it was really this desire not to over-explain. We hoped that the audience would fill in the blanks themselves. We wanted to give them the opportunity to piece it all together.
Female agency is such a powerful theme in this film, particularly as the surrogate mother-daughter relationship develops between Irene and young Mia. The heroes of time travel, time-hopping, or multiverse stories are more usually muscled male heroes on a quest to ‘right a wrong’. This is a very different take on that idea.
Matthew McManus: Something we talked about a lot was how, in revenge flicks, so often the protagonist is some macho guy, right? And now he’s going to take charge of everything, now somebody’s given him a reason to ‘kick some ass’. It’s a kind of wish fulfilment. Listen, I like those kinds of movies, I think they’re great. But there’s something different about having a mother like Irene go through this kind of revenge seeking process, and lose her humanity along the way. Seeing such a relatable, recognisable person dealing with this problem. That became really exciting to us. It was an intuitive thing to go in that direction, but I think it was also our reaction to what you’re used to seeing in regular revenge flicks.
It’s a lovely thing being able to work with your twin brother, and with this film we got to work with our sister Michaela McManus as well, who plays the role of Irene.
Your two leading characters go through an extraordinary and unpredictable emotional journey through the course of the film. Irene, the mother locked in an endless cycle of seeking vengeance, and Mia, the volatile young tearaway who Irene adopts – against her will to begin with! Redux Redux is an unusually emotionally engaged multiverse movie.
Matthew: When you’re telling a multiverse story, one of the trickiest parts is making the audience care about this one person in this one universe – because there’s an infinite amount of universes, right? So having Irene experience this really personal drive, this deeply personal vendetta, and making it feel like it’s singular to this woman, then all of a sudden, her story really matters. Because you’re thinking, ‘I’m not sure that there are parallel versions of this woman in different universes. I think she’s the one.’ That’s what gives her journey such high stakes.
Kevin and I are big structure nerds, and we always index-card everything out before we get into the details. And a lot of what you see on the screen is the original concept that we broke down. But when we thought of the character of Mia, it just changed the story. It’s not just us watching Irene continually go through the same experience. Mia’s presence throws everything up in the air, and it changes things in a really fun way.
Mia was a really hard character to cast, because if you get the wrong actress in that role, I don’t think the movie would work. You need to have somebody who is effortlessly funny and easy to root for. So when we found Stella Marcus, we were popping the champagne. We were so pleased. We then had somebody who could take it on, and breathe so much life into that role.
The film’s action sequences have an impressive sense of scale for a modest budget independent movie. You must have had to think very carefully about how to get the best impact from that.
Matthew: I think we are pretty happy with where we got to. The thing is that when you have a more limited budget, you want to be able to decide where you are compromising before you’re actually shooting, right? The scene involving the smuggler is a good example of something that we decided to shift a little bit. Originally, that sequence was supposed to take place at a flea market, and be full of extras and lots of production design. It would have looked great and been a lot of fun. But that’s a really expensive set piece to pull off, and you’re not getting a lot of bang for your buck.
So we moved it. We found this section of desert that was attached to one of the ranches where we were shooting the gas station scene. It had an amazing little plateau with all these views, and a tunnel that was dug into the hillside.
We thought ‘this could work too, and it’s gonna be pretty cool.’ So let’s change that scene, and then we’ll save our money and deliver a little more action to the screen.’ We’d rather spend money to light a guy on fire, or blow up a car, than have a bunch of extras standing round at a flea market.
Redux Redux begins with a stunning opening sequence, one guaranteed to lock in the audience’s attention. Was it always the plan to start with that vista?
Kevin: It was not always the opener. In fact, it was never in the script. The opening scene was going to be Irene on the ground with the killer Neville having his arm around her neck – the set-up for her first big kill.
But going into it knowing we had the opportunity to kill Neville over and over again, we thought ‘wouldn’t it be great to just grab the audience’s attention immediately? What’s one way that we can kill him that would be really visceral, and hopefully tell the audience to put your cell phone down?’
And so we’re talking to our stunt and special effects teams trying to come up with a plan. Now, guys getting lit on fire has been part of cinema for 100 years for a reason. So we asked them ‘is that possible for us?’ They said, ‘Oh, hell yeah, we could do that.’ And the price actually wasn’t that crazy. So we said ‘let’s put it in the most beautiful set that we’ve got. We’ll do it as the sun is going down and milk it for all it’s worth.’ And we were so pleased with how it turned out.
The dialogue between the two women includes some knowing references to other time travel and universe-hopping movies. That must have been fun to write.
Kevin: If it was up to us, we would just hammer the script with those kinds of references! We toyed around with putting more in – like pulling more of the wardrobe directly from the original Terminator. In the end, I’m glad we pulled back from that a little. I mean, obviously, these movies are our inspiration. It’s why we all got into this business, you know? You’re always trying to mimic the greats. So, yeah, there are all sorts of winks to those kinds of films all over this one.
Given the film’s blend of action-and-adventure and the more intimate story of two characters’ search for redemption, was it a tough call to balance the two elements tonally?
Matthew: We like those kinds of mixes in tone. I feel like it brings something extra to a story. There’s different little techniques that we use to bring in both the dark and the light. I think, to me, that’s something I really need in a story.
And a lot of it is through the dialogue and that relationship between Mia and Irene. But part of it is also music. One of the things I loved about Alex Garland’s Civil War – which is an incredibly bleak movie, really intense – is that the music is so interesting and so fun. The imagery is all still really grim, but you get that light music that just helps you get through the experience. And I think comedy is an important ingredient for any movie recipe.
The end of the film sees Irene and Mia arrive at a place of understanding and acceptance. Were you ever tempted to go darker or bleaker than that?
Kevin: Whenever you’re brainstorming it, of course, all the possible ideas about where the film could end go on the board. The most obvious thing to come up with would be for some tragedy to happen and have them find a doppelganger in a different universe. And every time that happens in a multiverse movie, an audience feels so robbed. So, for us, it was really important that this was going to be a story about these two people, and that we didn’t cheat on the way out of this thing.
Irene’s story of losing her humanity, of losing her daughter, ends with her realising that you can’t get back what you’ve lost. That’s really the message here – that you have to move on, and go in a different direction. Irene was trying to recapture something that used to belong to her, and it’s such a futile process trying to do that. Irene embracing her relationship with Mia is about acceptance and closure.
You’ve been screening Redux Redux at international film festivals prior to its general release. How has that side of things been going?
Matthew: It’s been such a fun experience. One of the best parts of being indie filmmakers is that, when you’ve made your film, you get to go see the world and experience the different reactions to it. It’s not always the same from place to place, and that’s a thrill. It’s such a special thing.
Kevin: What it also does is really inspire us for the next movie. Every single location you go to, you think, ‘I want to shoot here now.’ You see a thousand locations and want to film in each one, but you know there’s just not enough time to do a movie in every place. But those travels are so inspiring and replenishing after the gruelling process of shooting a movie. It’s nice to come out the other end, and feel revived enough to go do it again.
Can you share any hints about your next co-writing and co-directing project?
Kevin: We do have a few projects that I don’t think we can talk about at the moment, but that we are really thrilled about. I think the next one will likely be either horror or another grounded sci-fi. Those are the two things we’re really circling at the moment, and we’re excited to get back in the saddle as soon as possible.
Photo of Matthew (L) and Kevin (R) McManus, courtesy of Stella Marcus.
REDUX REDUX is released on major UK digital platforms on February 23rd.
