Emily Swallow • Liverpool Comic Con

Written By:

Andrew Dex

She’s been in one of the most brutal games ever made, The Last of Us Part II, she’s been on epic adventures through space as The Armourer in the monumental Star Wars hit The Mandalorian, and she’s even tackled the role of Puck in the disturbing alternative version of Pac-Man in Secret Level. Emily Swallow has built up an exceptional acting portfolio, filled with characters that have a realistic level of depth to them, and ahead of Liverpool Comic Con, STARBURST talks with her to reflect on her acting so far…

STARBURST: How did you get involved with the world of Supernatural, and how would you say that Amara compares to the other villains on the show? What makes her different?

Emily Swallow: I got involved simply because I auditioned for a lot of things, I feel like I’m always looking for work. It’s part of being an actor, and I got to audition for the show. I hadn’t seen it much. I’d seen a few episodes, because I had a lot of friends who had guest-starred in it, but I had not been an avid watcher. I watched a few episodes, to prep, and try and get some backstory, but I also think I benefited from just not knowing too much. It is such a testament to the creativity of their storytelling, but also to, the fact that the show always comes back to the family (Winchester family), and that relationship. I think that’s really the staying power. I think that every single character, even these like, totally out there villains, like Amara, they have such humanity. So that was really the way in for me. I think that was a way that she was really distinguished as a villain. Which she was at first, and then I think she became less so. It was my first time playing any sort of character that had supernatural abilities, a deity. There was nothing that I could relate to, with that! But, I could connect to her hurt, and her feelings of being misunderstood, and not being listened to. That was such an easy way in for me. I feel like a lot of people wound up connecting to her in spite of themselves, because of that. I think we can all relate to, feeling ostracized, and what she deeply wanted, whether or not she really knew it at the beginning, was this connection with the only family that she knew, and he was hiding out somewhere. Like, she didn’t even know where to find him. So I always say, I never condone smiting people, and sucking their souls, but I can certainly understand why she had these feelings of frustration, and why she acted out that way.

The Last of Us Part II is one of the most brutal games we’ve ever played. How would you describe the character you play, Emily (Seraphites), and what did Neil Druckmann and Halley Gross want to see from her in the game?

It’s one of the most brutal scenes, in one of the most brutal games. I was just captivated, talking with Neil Druckmann about this world. Because I played a lot of role-playing games, video games, and computer games when I was a kid. But it had been many years, and quite frankly I did not know how much that medium of storytelling had advanced, and I think particularly, with his way into it, even though I was this character that, I’m not in the game for that long, but Neil cares so much about the storytelling process. We had several meetings before I ever did my motion capture work. He explained to me the world, he explained to me what he was trying to say in a larger message with the first game. We talked through some of that, and we talked about how this world connected to that, and how it was a jumping off point. Then, he didn’t give me a ton of information about this character, but I think her actions say plenty about her. It’s always delicious as an actor when you get to play someone who is a villain or who is evil. Or, if we’re going to be softer about it, misguided. There’s something that is just so satisfying about giving in to that. Shooting that was really fun as well, doing motion capture work, it’s like going back to being a six-year-old, and just playing on the playground, because you don’t have a set, you don’t have costumes. Everyone is wearing these weird suits, with the little motion capture censors on them. You really have to use your imagination. I got to work with some people who had been a part of the first game. Everyone comes to it with such a feeling of play and freedom. Neil really cultivated that environment. It’s such an elaborate process, and there are so many people who are bringing so much skill to it. It was really cool to get to see the inside of that process, and then to see that the result is this game, which at times is like a movie, but you also get to step into it. You get to make these decisions as the characters, and explore the world that way. It’s such an incredible storytelling medium.

You got to do motion capture for the game as well. What was that like to do, and what do you think that process brings to the world of The Last of Us in general?

I think we have some awareness when we are playing a game like that, that it is real people who have gone in and created it, and like, whether or not we are thinking that the whole time, I feel like there’s a layer of that that must seep into our experience as the player. It just feels more real. Which, in some ways, is terrifying, I guess! When people go on a deep dive into these games. It’s such a special thing. It was really cool to watch the first season of the TV show, and to see that it’s a different story. It’s the same at the root, but the experience is so different. It was so interesting to me to see what they chose to pull out of this game that has multiple trajectories and multiple characters that you can explore. They kind of had to set it, and follow a very particular path. I thought it worked brilliantly. It is a different medium, and it evokes different experiences. It draws us in even more holistically.

Star Wars is known for its incredible use of practical effects, so I’ve got to ask, what do you remember the most from like, that side of the process as The Armourer on the set of The Mandalorian?

Everything that I shot in Season One was within a practical set – my little forge. I saw the volume, but I never worked with it on Season One. So, I got to have that for the whole first season. It was so important for a character like her. Even though she is doing space blacksmithing, it’s a very grounded, tangible thing to be a builder. And, I loved that it was sort of a sacred space that The Mandalorian would come and visit every time. We joked about how ridiculous it was that we had to sit at that tiny little table, and every time we would try to sit, the first few times, we inevitably bonked helmets. It was so awkward, because we were both in this big armour. The level of craftsmanship is just astonishing to me, and Tony Swatton, who is the blacksmith I trained with, built all of my tools for the show. He inspired Jon Favreau for what the Beskar should look like, because he had this Beskar steel and had these beautiful designs, which was what the Beskar was based on.

Even though Beskar doesn’t exist in the world as we know it, I know that it’s based on something that’s very tangible, and something I have gotten to see the process of making. One of my favourite things about being an actor is when I get to learn new skills. It was really satisfying with this character, to get to learn the art of blacksmithing, and to see how the rigour of that process informs her naturally as a person, and the way she goes about life in general. The most important thing is that everything has to be beautiful, but they also wanted to make sure that I felt comfortable using the tools. I am told that I have four different kinds of hammers on this show, I’m only aware of three, because I had one that I used for most of my actual blacksmithing, and then I had a foam one that I used whenever I had to beat somebody up. Then I had one that was their favourite to shoot, because it was the most beautiful. It was titanium, but it was like 20 pounds. So I couldn’t do anything with it except hold it. All of those are crafted to look the same, and you think it’s the same thing. The level of detail that has to go into that, and how they create those props, is incredible. Even when I did work on the volume, there would be days when I would walk onto the set, and it was really hard to tell where the physical set ended and the volume began, because both were just so exquisite. So it was a real delight, to get to do that. To be able to blend the practical world with the volumes, so we weren’t just using green screens and blue screens. It’s great to go into your imagination, but it’s also so much fun as an actor, when you have all of that.

The Armourer has some brilliant fight sequences in the show – you fight stormtroopers and The Mandalorian himself – which one was the most rewarding for you to work on, and why?

I have to give credit to all of our incredible stunt performers, because I do not have the skill to do all of the stunts. Also, I really appreciate them and I appreciate our stunt coordinators and fight coordinators, Ryan Watson and J.J. Dashnaw. They were willing to let us be a part of it as much as we could. The stunt performers who perform a lot of the stuff are Lateef Crowder, who is Mando’s stunt double; Lauren Mary Kim, who was my stunt double for Season One; and Joanna Bennett. They all worked with me, to train me, and to help me pick up as much of it as I could. I did try to learn every single sequence, whether or not they were going to actually let me actually shoot it, because some of them, they just won’t let us shoot it, because of risk and liability. It’s part of the language of expression, for the character. So, it was really important to me to know what they felt like in my body. I think the most satisfying one for me to learn, and to do, was the training sequence with the lightsaber. It was sort of like my Jedi moment, my Jedi training moment. With season one, I didn’t have any martial arts training, thank goodness I didn’t do any of that fight with the stormtroopers because it would not have looked nearly as good. But then for The Book of Boba Fett, I said, “Well, I want to train, I want to try and learn this.” And so, they gave me the time, and the space, and the instruction to do that. And so that was kind of one of the first ones that I took on, and was really able to do. It stands for so much in the show, and it was just so satisfying to get to do it, that I think that’s the one that I delighted in the most. But also, every time I get to see that one from season one with the stormtroopers, I have to laugh. I asked if I could do it, I knew there was going to be a fight, but I didn’t know what it was going to look like. I was like “I’ve done stage combat! I’m athletic, and I can learn things!” Ryan our stunt co-ordinator at the time, he said, “Do you have any martial arts training?” and I said “No, but I pick stuff up!” he said “That’s really cute…!” he was like “Yeah, you can train, but it’s based in Kali, you’re welcome to train, and see what you can pick up, but we are probably not going to use you for this one….” and this was like two weeks before we were shooting it. So I did like some transitional things, but I didn’t actually see the full sequence until the episode aired, and when I saw it, my jaw just dropped. I was like “OK, I get it!” It would not have looked like that. You would have seen me trying really hard, and you would have said “That’s so cute, she is making such an effort!” but it would not have been as exquisite.

As the show has gone on, The Armourer has become a much more central figure. What has that progression or story arc been like to work on for yourself, alongside Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni?

At first, it made me a little nervous. I think that she’s a character who benefits so much from mystery. As an actor, I want to work as much as possible. I was excited about being on set more, but I was also a little trepidatious about whether people would be less interested if they found out more. Jon and Dave are brilliant. They’re creative, like the best team coaches ever, because they know how to bring people together and ensure everyone has a voice at the table. Make sure everyone is focused on the central story point, which is so important on a show like that, where there is so much that’s going on technically, where we’re shooting out of order. We always have like two episodes shooting at once, so we’d be running back and forth. To scene six in episode six, and then going to do scene two in episode one, and trying to keep track of what the story arc is, is really important. They were so integral in keeping us rooted in that, and to listening to what our instincts are for these characters. They’re wonderful storytellers. They certainly have an idea for where it’s going, but they are not so glued to that that they’re beyond listening to input or noticing when something shifts. One of my favourite things about the process of making a movie or a TV or a play or whatever, is that there are words on paper. A writer can imagine how it’s going to play out, but then something different, either in large ways or small ways, happens when you have real, live human beings. Saying these words, and having these physical relationships. So there were dynamics that we discovered as we were shooting. So the story sometimes changed a little bit, and especially with my character being helmeted all the time, they very quickly realised, with any of us wearing our helmets, it was really easy if they needed to rewrite a scene. They don’t have to pay attention to how somebody’s mouth moves. For many of my scenes, we recorded different versions of lines or different options for dialogue. And then, I had to make sure that I was watching the episodes. I was doing non-stop conventions, whilst season three was airing, so I always had to make sure that I watched that week’s episode before I went and did conventions, so that I wouldn’t say the wrong things, so that I would know what the actual story was. They are just such a delight to collaborate with, because they are so smart. They’re always the smartest in the room, but they’re so humble, and it truly is like a real collaboration. I think when you create an environment like that, everyone just steps up to the plate with their A game. Everyone is firing on all cylinders, and it was just such a delicious space to be in, I just love working with them.

Castlevania went on to become a hit, when you look at the show, why do you think it’s gone down so well? Like, what really makes it stand out?

It was so smart of them, and it’s such a dark show. They set it up with this relationship with my character Lisa Tepes and Vlad. That opening scene between the two of them is almost like a romcom! It’s so silly, and she’s calling him out on basically just being rude. You get to see the heart of this guy, that we all know from like, legends of Dracula, and they have a very strong opinion of who he is. In the series, he wound up, sort of like Amara. He didn’t act out his feelings in healthy ways. You could see the root of that; you could see that he had the potential to be so loving and that he had real humanity. So I think that that gives a way into that pain, which feels a lot more accessible than if we are just thinking about Dracula! I started to hear people say this, and I saw this doing Supernatural, and I think it’s sort of the same, with a show like Castlevania. I think it helps people feel seen, and to get in touch with their own complex emotions, when light and dark are sort of, personified. There are a lot of people that I’ve talked to about Supernatural in particular, who feel like the mental darkness that they might struggle with, or personal demons, seeing that personified in this heightened way on a TV show, gives them access to things that feel in-accessible when they’re on their own. I think that there’s something that is so re-assuring about that, and makes us feel more connected to other people, who are having the same experience. So, I think Castlevania is probably like that. We have such strong forces of light and darkness fighting each other. Ultimately, you’re hoping that goodness wins, but you also see that goodness is different for different people. Depending on what life throws at us, we might respond in ways that are very relatable, but then wind up hurting people, and so, grappling with that, I think feels very accessible to people, and I think that’s one of the reasons that Castlevania gained such an audience. It’s beautiful, the animation is absolutely stunning, so there’s that as well! It’s nice and pretty to look at.

The idea for Secret Level is very unique, what attracted you to working on the show and what can you tell us about the episode that you’re a part of, PAC-MAN: Circle.

It was a job that was offered to me, I didn’t really know much about, the larger context of what I was recording, I didn’t know the whole context for the series Secret Level. Aleks Le, the other actor in that, he and I talked when we finally saw the screening, and we both expressed such surprise at what it looked like. We had some concept art, but we didn’t really know the world that we were voicing. It’s pretty clear just from the dialogue that it is a dark and unforgiving world, but I love the concept for the series as a whole. They had this wonderful concept, and they trusted the writers and the animators. They gave them free rein, to use any point of inspiration as a jumping off point for each episode. And so I love that there are episodes you watch, and you go, “Oh, yeah, I know exactly how that connects to this video game” but then there’s also this space for something like the Pac-Man episode, which is very divisive. I’ve heard some people say that they love it, and some people say, “That’s not Pac-Man! I want nothing to do with that!” In keeping with what we were talking about with Supernatural and Castlevania, I love that it taps into something deeper than just Pac-Man, and sort of the nature of some of our struggles in life. How we build up this fortitude, we learn lessons, and we advance, and then we get knocked back down again, and then, what are you going to do at that point of decision? Are you going to say “OK, I got knocked down, but I’ve acquired some more skills, so let me give it another go!?” Or, are you going to be completely demoralised? Are you going to open another door, and maybe go to a different level? So I loved that it played into that metaphor of life, and just video games in general. I think there is something that is so satisfying to us as humans, that in these games, we do get a chance. Like, even if we die, we can start over! We can say, “OK, I died that time, but now I’ve got this secret code, I know to avoid this guy, and I know to go through here” and so, we get to advance. I think it’s delicious, it’s so weird. I showed it to my nephews, and they were completely freaked out by it, and my brother was not a fan, but that’s OK. I’d rather be proud of something that’s very divisive, than something than something that is just kind of, meh.

How excited are you about your upcoming appearance at Liverpool Comic Con? There are going to be a lot of Star Wars actors there!

I love getting to do conventions! I started acting in theatre, and you have a very direct connection to the audience when you’re doing theatre, you’re living in the same space, you’re breathing the same air, and they’re an integral part of the experience. I really miss that when I’m doing film and TV, and I’ve realised with conventions, it’s a chance to complete that storytelling loop. I learn so much from the fans, especially with Star Wars, because Star Wars runs deep; people have so many varied connections to it. I’m doing a convention this weekend, with some of the kids from Skeleton Crew, and I’m so interested to talk to them, because they’re this entirely new generation, that is, just now getting into Star Wars. I love that I get to meet people my age, who are sharing it with their kids, there are grandparents who are watching it with their grand kids, it’s a multi-generational story, and I feel like it’s one of the myths of our time. So to get to meet people, find out what hits them, and what they take away from it, from Star Wars, and any of the projects I’ve been fortunate enough to be on. I love getting to meet people, and I love that I get to travel all over the world, and see how these stories hit in different places. It’s interesting to see what resonates in different areas of the world, and what people are drawn to. It’s just such a learning experience for me. I get to meet actors, and musicians, and performers that I’ve never worked with, but they’re doing these conventions as well, so I get to learn about them, and I get to be a fan girl.