With the latest animated DC offering – the hugely impressive Justice League vs. the Fatal Five – now available on Blu-ray, DVD and digitally, we were lucky enough to grab some time with Eric Carrasco and Eric Carrasco. Having penned the tale with the legendary Alan Burnett, we sat down with Eric and Jim to discuss the nefarious villains of the piece, the personal traumas highlighted in the film, getting to work in the classic Timmverse realm, and a whole host more.
STARBURST: Firstly, why was the decision made to use the Fatal Five as the villains of the piece here?
Jim Krieg: When we work with [Warner] Home Video, we generate a list of villains or potential threats to the Justice League. I think they read the words “Fatal Five” and they said, “Fatal Five? That sounds pretty scary.” We all have a hidden agenda to bring the Legion [of Super-Heroes] back or do the Legion in some form, and I think Bruce [Timm] was motivated to have a group of villains who can be a real threat to the Justice League without being an army.
Eric Carrasco: That’s the thing that Bruce [Timm] was saying constantly in the early story sessions. He didn’t want a threat that would devolve into faceless Parademons or troops that the Justice League could just plough through easily. He wanted very unique villains with their own visuals and their own skillset and their own weapons. Here you have a guy whose hands can atomize anything, and an ask that can cut through anything, and the Emerald Eye of Ekron, and a giant creature that can shoot lightning bolts out of its brain. It’s a lot of really distinct stuff that pairs well with the Justice League’s powers.
These days, how hard is it to make villains feel like a genuine threat and not just throwaway characters?
Eric: That is one thing that goes way back to the first appearance of the Fatal Five, to the Jim Shooter Legion of Super-Heroes comics. They’re not even introduced as supervillains when we first meet them in the comics; they’re introduced like a Hannibal Lector necessary evil that the Legion of Super-Heroes turn to to defeat a great threat. So even in the comics they’re treated as so bad they’re actually allies, and they’re immediately set apart from all of the other villains the Legion had ever faced. Without doing that exact thing, we tried to play them as larger than life characters right from the start in the way they’re introduced in this movie. For a lot of this movie, there’s just three of the five running around.
Jim: Just the three of them are already such a huge threat. It really gives you an unspoken feeling of dread that all five are going to be even worse.
Eric: The trick was to separate them and make them so scary. They had to be held in a very special place when captured, they time-travelled right away. These were tricks to make them larger than life right from the jump.
While casual audiences may be drawn in by the Holy Trinity, one of the most interesting elements of the movie is the battle that Star Boy and Jessica Cruz are having with issues such as PTSD and mental instability. How much fun is it to write something so meaty in comparison to just covering the usual superhero tropes?
Jim: It was really fun. I think what Eric brought to the group when we started talking about this story is Star Boy’s history from Justice Society by Geoff Johns. I think we were familiar with Jessica, but those two stories paired together so easily. That is kind of a classic trick, to use our bigger characters as an anchor. The Trinity is the anchor, then you showcase lesser-known characters. Like on Green Lantern: The Animated Series, we already know most of what’s going to happen. You can only do so much with Kilowog and Hal, but if you invent Aya and Razer then nobody knows what’s going to happen. And that’s when you can have some fun.
Eric: And we knew we were dealing with bad guys from the future, so we knew we were instantly in a world where we were talking about the legacy of the Justice League: will they be remembered in a thousand years? Knowing we were talking about legacy and what people leave behind, you can kind of work backwards from there and be, “Okay, this is a story where Star Boy grew up hearing stories about his favourite heroes in the Justice League and playing with Justice League figures. Now he gets to travel back in time and meet his heroes.” So having the original Trinity, having the original voice actors from the original Justice League cartoon, having the original Bruce Timm style of animation, even just subconsciously for the audience you can play that feeling of, “They were the toys I grew up with, this is the cartoon I grew up with.” It puts you in Star Boy’s shoes; it puts you in awe of the Justice League the same way Jessica Cruz is in awe of Wonder Woman.
Jim: Here’s a bit just for you. Eric had this great moment where they see the statues of the Justice League in the future, and there’s no Batman. Jessica’s feeling bad for Batman but Batman is super satisfied because he’s all, “No, no. My whole goal was to blend into the background and the shadows, which means I succeeded.” But we had to cut it, like every other brilliant idea. That’s mostly what we do; we have like a zillion great ideas and cut 80% of them.
Eric: Actually, if you look closely when we go into Star Boy’s mind palace, in the first room they enter you can see the Metro Tower playset in the background on one of Star Boy’s shelves.
Jim, with you having worked on GL: TAS, you clearly have an affinity for the Emerald Knights. Do you think that the Green Lanterns are sometimes a little short-changed in the grand scheme of things, though?
Jim: Oh yeah. I felt short-changed when episode 27 of Green Lantern: The Animated Series didn’t happen. There are so many stories to tell with these characters, and I think there’s a hunger to see them. I hope at some point in the future we can really dig into that mythology because it’s so rich and so satisfying. Obviously Geoff Johns expanded it so much with those other Lantern colours. I think there’s a real opportunity to see more of them, and hopefully we will before I retire.
Eric: Do it!
Eric, having done some writing work on Supergirl – a series that has featured its own take on the Legion of Super-Heroes – did you pull any inspiration from that show for Justice League vs. the Fatal Five?
Eric: I was very lucky on Supergirl to co-write the Legion of Super-Heroes episodes that we did in Season 3 that introduced Brainiac 5. When I’m writing Brainiac 5’s voice, that sort of always comes out – Jesse Rath’s performance. So I always sort of write in that way, but Noel Fisher in this movie brought something different to it. Just by virtue of working on Supergirl and writing the Legion of Super-Heroes characters, I’d researched the Legion so much and read so many Legion comics that I had the vast stack of Fatal Five comics to come in to the office with to pitch to Bruce Timm and to Alan Burnett and to Jim with. It basically gave me a huge head start on the thinking for this and I’d already put a lot of thought into the Fatal Five and Star Boy even though they were not featured on Supergirl.
You both are clearly passionate about this world and were fans way before this became your job, so how crazy is it for you to now be going to the offices of people like Bruce Timm and Alan Burnett and having them as peers?
Eric: Now, it is very, very cool. The first time, very, very scary. But they’re great. Alan’s retired now, so I feel intensely lucky to have been on a project with him before he retired. To come to the office and geek out about superpowers and act out fight scenes with Bruce Timm, that’s unbelievable to me. I truly grew up on Batman: The Animated Series and Justice League, so it’s kind of crazy.
Jim: Even more interesting for me is the moment that it changed from, “Oh, these are legends that I get to work with” to “Oh, these are my friends.” You get to spend so much time with them and you get to know them so well, and that’s a strange corner to turn. We still have the same fan arguments that you had with your friends at the comic-book shop when you were 14, except they’re all kind of legends.
Similar to the awe that Star Boy has for the Justice League in this movie, then?
Eric: I think I said this on a panel, but it was pointed out to me later that I had, in the character of Miss Martian, kind of written myself. She’s super nervous to be a part of this Justice League, so I think she’s the me of this story.
Does that in turn make Bruce Timm your Batman?
Jim: Bruce is everyone’s Batman [laughs].
The animated DC movies have been around for decades, with so many changes in the characters covered, the animation styles, the New 52 reboot with Flashpoint Paradox. How hard is it keep things fresh and show the audience something that they’ve not seen?
Jim: I think every movie that you write is a challenge, and you always want to surprise the audience. I don’t think that because we’ve done a lot of movies in the DC Universe adds to that challenge. In fact, it makes it easier because the amount of material we can be inspired by and draw from is so massive. Even in this entire floor of animators and producers who are all DC geeks, we have not read it all. Someone will say, “Did you read this? Do you know this story? This is my favourite story from when I was a kid.” And you’ll say, “No, that’s new to me.” Then you’ll figure out how to do your spin on that idea, then it becomes new again. The trick is, will it be new to the audience?
Eric: The challenge is the other direction. With 80 years of history to pull from, to be inspired by – clearly these stories work and have continued to work in comics and movies and TV shows, so that’s not the fear – you have to streamline these into 70-minute films. So you’re constantly going, “Okay, so what are we focussing in on this time? Where are we swinging the lens over to today?” Knowing you have this incredible universe to pull from and all these years to pull from and all these other movies to pull from and be inspired by, you just have to kind of focus it.
Jim: It is a challenge to tell a good story in the 72 minutes or however long we have with these and feel like you’re not disappointing someone. You’re disappointing someone, for sure, but it’s keeping that to a minimum.
How did the decision come about to return to the world and animation style of the classic Timmverse or Diniverse?
Eric: I was not there for that particular meeting, so I got a special call from Jim. It was, “Boy, have I got some news for you!” I was jumping up and down, I was so excited. Sometimes when you’re a younger writer on these, you sneak stuff in from your favourite cartoons. So I would pitch an episode of Justice League Action to Alan, and in my mind that’s not DCAU canon, that’s not Bruce Timm’s style, but Kevin Conroy’s Batman and stuff. And when you’re doing a Kevin Conroy Batman episode, you go, “Maybe we put it in the Iceberg Lounge? Maybe we get in these little elements so that I can pretend in my own head canon that this is part of my favourite cartoon…” This script had already sort of been written with Justice Leagie Unlimited in mind, with those stories in mind, with those voices of the characters in mind; I had already sort of pivoted it that way. Then you get the confirmation that the animation is going to look like that and the characters are going to sound like that, it’s great.
Jim: It actually happened! It’s so strange.
Are there any particular classic stories or arcs that you’d love to tackle but that you’re weary of doing due to the confines of a 70-minute run time?
Jim: I can’t say, because I want to keep doing these [laughs]. The stories, I’m always pitching them. It’s just a matter of wearing down the powers-that-be until they want to do them. In terms of art style, there are some challenges in making every art style look right in animation. We ran up against that in Gotham by Gaslight and not being able to do the [Mike] Mignola style exactly. The intention is always to make it as close to the original artist, at least in tone and feel. But I’m not an artist, so I just sit back and say, “Wow, that’s great!”
Eric: Neither of us can draw.
With that said, then, what would be your dream arc or story to bring to life?
Jim: You know, I wrote a short that was Doctor Who meets the Scooby gang. I thought we were able to do it, but that ended up not happening. I’m always a little broken hearted that that didn’t happen.
Eric: How about Doctor Who meets the Legion of Super-Heroes? Time bubble, TARDIS, wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey.
Jim: All I’ll say is Tom Baker is still alive, and his voice is great.
Eric: It’s a Legion of Doctors and a Legion of Super-Heroes!
Justice League vs. the Fatal Five is out now on Blu-ray, DVD and digital – and you can find our review of the movie here.
