Scott Cooper is an American director, writer and producer. His latest film Antlers is perhaps a departure from his previous works including Hostiles and Black Mass, being a fantasy horror involving the mythical Wendigo. Scott took some time to talk with STARBURST about bringing the creature to life, working in different genres, and his dark sensibilities.
STARBURST: It’s been a strange 18 months since Antlers was originally due for release…
Scott Cooper: Yes, and I’m so thankful that we’re finally releasing it into the cinemas as I believe horror should be experienced communally.
Your films have a grandeur to them; the visuals being just as important as the story you’re telling.
The atmosphere, the location, how I place the actors in the frame. And in this particular film, we shot on a large format camera. This is a story about a young boy with very big problems and the way I placed him in the frame is best experienced on that giant screen. All very deliberate.
A lot of your films are grounded, often in a not altogether pleasant reality. And there is a sense of that here with the decaying town. But Antlers is a fantasy horror. Was that a change for you, a challenge against your instincts?
I think the great danger for a filmmaker is in doing safe work; continuing to make the same film over and over. I have no interest in that. That’s why I made a musical drama with Jeff Bridges, a rust-belt drama with Christian Bale and Casey Affleck. It’s why I made a gangster film with Johnny Depp and Benedict Cumberbatch. It’s why I made a western with Christian Bale. And now this. I always like to be in an uncomfortable space as a filmmaker. I also know that this is my first immersion into the supernatural, but I wanted it to feel very grounded. So, I looked at another filmmaker who I greatly admire and who has been a mentor for me over the years, and that’s William Friedkin. And if you look at, say, the French Connection. And then he makes a film like The Exorcist, which also deals with family grief and the supernatural. But what’s so scary about the film as a parent is that it’s played so realistically. So, I ask myself ‘how can I use that as a barometer?’ Or Kubrick’s The Shining? Or Ridley Scott’s Alien? Or Nicolas Roeg’s Don’t Look Now? All that deals with the supernatural in a very grounded environment. And I would not have made this film if it wasn’t for Guillermo del Toro. Firstly, he approached me and said ‘Scott, your last three films have been horror films, and nobody knows it. Would you consider directing a horror film?’ And I said yes. I love the genre. Some of my earliest remembrances are of seeing films I shouldn’t be seeing at a young age with my older brother. It’s another challenge for me. But I wanted to hold up, as I’ve kind of done in my previous films, a dark mirror to the fears and anxieties we’re facing as Americans. And we’re facing a lot of them. How do I do that? And also merging with the supernatural. And because Guillermo is the foremost monster and creature creator, I knew that he would be able to help me in the execution, of the practical production of the Wendigo. Also, in terms of making that feel as haunting and realistic as possible. But for me, the scariest things are some of the themes that run through it: the generational trauma, familial abuse and addiction crisis. Our maltreatment of Native Americans. All of those things course through my other work. Let’s be honest, Guillermo and I are very different filmmakers, our sensibilities are very different. It’s a miracle that any of this works. But I’m very proud of the film, and I think it’s another step in my maturation as a filmmaker.
Having watched your earlier films there was a question over whether when the time came, would Antlers move into true fantasy, or would there be something else going on. Your other films do deal with human darkness. With what you’ve done here was it then about being respectful of the myths and beliefs of the native people?
As you can see in Hostiles, Native American people and causes are very important to me. I worked with Native American advisors on that film and certainly here. As a white, Anglo-Saxon protestant telling a story that deals with indigenous folklore, it was critical that I looked to experts. Chris Eyre, who was also a consultant on Hostiles, worked with me here. But so did Grace Dillon, who is a professor at Portland State University, and she is the foremost authority on the Wendigo in North America and has written extensively on it. So, from my screenplay to the creation of our creature, all through shooting and post-production, she was incredibly generous with her time and expertise. And I would never have made the film without Guillermo and someone like Grace Dillon to guide me through what this folklore means to indigenous cultures. It was a real challenge.
That’s interesting because the Wendigo doesn’t have a great deal of descriptive clarity.
According to Professor Dillon, the Wendigo manifests itself in many different ways, but first and foremost it’s a spirit. It’s a very antlered creature that has deer-like qualities. And we wanted to pay homage to that antlered creature for sure. But we chose to make our Wendigo represent the destruction of our natural resources, so it felt like it was born out of a mine, out of iron and ore and coal. Which is what the exoskeleton looks like and has embers and a glowing heart. But it also represents the destruction of our bodies through addiction. And it represents greed, and greed doesn’t have to be voracious about money but can be about natural resources and about narcotics. About taking something from someone else, that doesn’t belong to you. And that can emerge in familial abuse, which we realise through Keri Russell and Jesse Plemons’ characters. That we see through the abuse Lukas has endured. That all courses through in a very subtle way, but also reminds us that the Wendigo lives in all of us. That pain and misery run through everybody and eventually it will come out. You can’t escape it.
That’s interesting because when you watch your films, you get the sense there is a lot of guilt, suffering, dark souls. Is that something that appears naturally when you’re writing or is it something you seek out?
It’s everything you just expressed. One of my tenets as a filmmaker is that, if I can see myself in my work others will see themselves. As opposed to going to therapy, as I probably should, I tend to put it into my work. Or I tend to put it into my characters or my scenarios. The great musician Eddie Vedder, who wrote some music for Out of the Furnace, said that if you don’t write that stuff down it’ll just eat you up, and that’s true. So, I put it into my films and that’s therapeutic for me. My films can be divisive as they deal with some tough subject matter. Not everyone is willing or open to exploring that, and I’m completely fine with that. A legendary American director who shall remain nameless said to me that ‘if everyone likes your film it’s probably not very good.’
That’s interesting because, and forgive me, but Black Mass felt like the lesser of your films because perhaps there was less of you in there. Because you were dealing with a true story. With Antlers, you can go anywhere. And to get the performance from the child actors, when they have to convey so much horror.
I have had children in all my films apart from Out of the Furnace. Including my own kids who are in Hostiles. I’m quite familiar with child actors. But I never use ones who have acting coaches and agents. I have no interest in those kids because they don’t take direction, they’re camera ready, I want kids who feel like they’ve experienced some life. I want kids who can convey non-verbally, who have a rich interior life. And Jeremy Thomas and young Sawyer Jones absolutely do that. They’re shouldering the burden at too young of an age. As a young boy who lives by duty and self-preservation. In dealing with these dark themes, doing a film with a 7-year-old and a 12-year-old was incredibly challenging, as I had to constantly remind them this is a big sandbox we’re playing in, this is all make-believe. They were in dark attics, in cold dark mines, and faced with a big Wendigo. Themes that are too big for any child to deal with. And they give such heart-wrenching performances. For me, it’s as good as anything I’ve seen this year. Because it isn’t acting.
Antlers probably has the best character survival rate for your films; you do kill a lot of your cast off. Not to spoil other films, but the end of Hostiles is bold and dramatic and dark. There is a dark sensibility.
And I’m a generally light guy so I don’t know where that comes from! But I will say that from the philosopher Thomas Hobbes, there is a Hobbesian viewpoint in my films where life is nasty, brutish and short.
It’s definitely short! We wanted to speak about the Wendigo. It looks like there was a lot of in-camera effects, and presumably, there is an influence from Guillermo. Was that difficult to do on set as much is in darkness?
It was tough because it’s also a big creature. Dorian Kingi was the actor inside the Wendigo and it was heavy and laborious to move, so it was largely practical but with some CGI enhancement. I don’t have a lot of experience, but visual effects have come a long way and assimilating the two was quite successful. For someone who has never had that in their films this kept me up at night, to make it look a real as everything around it.
You’ve said before you have a script you want to make, The Pale Blue Eye?
I’m making it now. It surrounds a series of murders at a military academy with a young cadet who would later become renowned as Edgar Allan Poe. And as a Virginian, with a lot of Poe literature around me growing up, I’ve always been fascinated by him. And he is the godfather of crime and horror fiction.
Antlers is out now in cinemas.
